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[硬件] 有买首发12代CPU的,可以拿出来看看有没有弯

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发表于 2022-1-17 10:40 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2022-1-17 10:40 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2022-4-10 14:10 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 两个路人 于 2022-4-10 14:31 编辑

更新来了:牙膏厂答Tom hardware众人问(邪笑) 简而言之:这都在我大牙膏厂算计之内,你们不要瞎操心。顺便,你们没事儿瞎动手脚,可能会丢保修哦(

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-comments-on-alder-lakes-warping-and-bending-issues-mods-void-warranty
来自DEEPL的机翻结果
Intel has finally given us some in-depth commentary on an issue that has plagued its lineup of newer chips: the Alder Lake processors that dominate our list of Best CPUs for gaming have suffered from a vexing problem for enthusiasts — due to the chips' new elongated design and how it is clasped into the socket, they have been known to bend and warp when they are placed in the motherboard's socket. As you can see in the very short video below, this creates a gap that reduces the contact between the cooler and the chip, ultimately hampering the cooler's ability to keep the chip cool. This can cause higher chip temperatures (impact varies, typically around 5C).

英特尔终于给了我们一些关于困扰其较新芯片阵容的问题的深入评论:在我们的最佳游戏CPU列表中占主导地位的Alder Lake处理器对发烧友来说有一个令人烦恼的问题--由于芯片的新加长设计和它被扣入插座的方式,当它们被放在主板的插座中时,它们已经知道弯曲和翘曲。正如你在下面这个很短的视频中所看到的,这产生了一个间隙,减少了冷却器和芯片之间的接触,最终妨碍了冷却器保持芯片冷却的能力。这可能导致更高的芯片温度(影响不一,通常在5C左右)。

The condition, referred to as 'bending,' 'warping,' or 'bowing' in PC enthusiast circles, is the result of the tremendous pressure placed on the middle of the chip that causes the IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader) to bend, and it often results in very creative workarounds to address the issue. This can range from users employing washers or custom-built devices to extreme overclockers like Splave hacksawing a socket out of a motherboard to regain the lost cooling ability.

Intel has finally commented on the issues, stating that this condition isn't a problem and that modifying the socket can void the chip's warranty. It told Tom's Hardware:

"We have not received reports of 12th Gen Intel Core processors running outside of specifications due to changes to the integrated heat spreader (IHS). Our internal data show that the IHS on 12th Gen desktop processors may have slight deflection after installation in the socket. Such minor deflection is expected and does not cause the processor to run outside of specifications. We strongly recommend against any modifications to the socket or independent loading mechanism. Such modifications would result in the processor being run outside of specifications and may void any product warranties." —Intel Spokesperson to Tom's Hardware.

Intel's statement does acknowledge that the condition exists but says it doesn't cause performance issues. However, it's important to take these comments in context: First, deflection is an engineering term to describe "the degree to which a part of a structural element is displaced under a load (because it deforms)," so this is the technical term for what the enthusiast community refers to as 'bending,' 'warping,' or 'bowing.'

Second, Intel's statement that it hasn't received reports of the chips running outside of specifications means that the deflection doesn't cause the chip to run higher than the 100C maximum temperature and that any increased thermals don't cause the chip to drop below its base frequency. That doesn't mean there isn't an impact on cooling — it just isn't severe enough to cause the chip to run out of spec.

However, there's some nuance to Intel's definition of spec'd performance: Intel does not guarantee that you will hit the rated boost frequencies — it only guarantees that you will reach the base frequency. It's worth noting that the flagship Core i9-12900K and the Special Edition Core i9-12900KS have both hit up to 100C in our testing, and that's during normal operation. The chip downclocks itself to stay within the 100C envelope, so an extra 5C of lost cooling capability could result in less performance at peak load because the chip will not boost as high. However, this doesn't fall under Intel's definition of not being within spec — Turbo Boost frequencies aren't guaranteed.


这种情况在PC发烧友圈子里被称为 "弯曲"、"翘曲 "或 "弓形",是由于施加在芯片中间的巨大压力导致IHS(集成散热器)弯曲的结果,它常常导致非常有创意的解决方法来解决这个问题。这可能包括用户采用垫圈或定制的设备,以及像Splave这样的极端超频者从主板上锯掉一个插座来恢复失去的冷却能力。


英特尔终于对这些问题发表了评论,指出这种情况不是问题,修改插座会使芯片的保修失效。它告诉汤姆的硬件。


"我们没有收到关于第12代英特尔酷睿处理器由于改变集成散热器(IHS)而超出规格运行的报告。我们的内部数据显示,第12代台式机处理器的IHS在安装到插座后可能会有轻微的偏移。这种轻微的偏移是意料之中的,不会导致处理器的运行不符合规格。我们强烈建议不要对插座或独立装载机制进行任何修改。这种修改将导致处理器在规格之外运行,并可能使任何产品保修失效"。-英特尔发言人向Tom's Hardware表示。


英特尔的声明确实承认该条件的存在,但表示它不会导致性能问题。然而,重要的是要把这些评论放在背景中。首先,偏转是一个工程术语,用来描述 "结构元素的一部分在负载下移位的程度(因为它变形)",所以这是发烧友社区所说的 "弯曲"、"扭曲 "或 "弯曲 "的技术术语。


第二,英特尔的声明,即它还没有收到关于芯片运行超出规格的报告,意味着变形不会导致芯片运行高于100C的最高温度,而且任何增加的热量不会导致芯片下降到其基本频率以下。这并不意味着对冷却没有影响--它只是没有严重到导致芯片运行超出规格。


然而,英特尔对规格性能的定义有一些细微差别。英特尔不保证你会达到额定的提升频率,它只保证你会达到基本频率。值得注意的是,在我们的测试中,旗舰版酷睿i9-12900K和特别版酷睿i9-12900KS都达到了100C,而且是在正常运行时。芯片自行降频以保持在100C的范围内,因此额外的5C冷却能力损失可能会导致峰值负载时的性能降低,因为芯片不会提升到那么高。然而,这并不属于英特尔对不符合规格的定义--Turbo Boost频率没有保证。


As to the exotic lengths that enthusiasts have undertaken to regain performance, Intel says very clearly that this could void the warranty.


However, many other concerns aren't addressed in Intel's initial statement: As you can see in the image above, our sister site AnandTech noticed that the condition could cause the LGA 1700 socket itself, and thus the motherboard, to bend. This results from the awkward pressure placed on the chip in the ILM (Independent Loading Mechanism) that clamps down to hold the chip secure in the socket. This mechanism only contacts the chip in a small area in the middle, causing deflection.


The motherboard warpage around the socket raises questions about the long-term impact on the motherboard, as traces and other circuitry/SMDs could be impacted by the force of the bending on the motherboard. That's not to mention the potential for damage to the socket, or to the chip from improper mating. We asked Intel the following questions, and the responses are in-line:


至于发烧友们为恢复性能而采取的异乎寻常的做法,英特尔非常明确地说,这可能使保修失效。


然而,在英特尔的最初声明中,许多其他的担忧并没有得到解决。正如你在上面的图片中所看到的,我们的姐妹网站AnandTech注意到,这种情况可能导致LGA 1700插座本身,从而导致主板弯曲。这是因为ILM(独立加载机制)对芯片施加了尴尬的压力,该机制夹住了芯片,将其牢牢固定在插座上。这个机制只在中间的一个小区域与芯片接触,导致偏离。


插座周围的主板翘曲引发了对主板长期影响的疑问,因为导线和其他电路/SMD可能会受到主板上的弯曲力的影响。这还不算,还有可能对插座造成损害,或因配合不当对芯片造成损害。我们向英特尔提出了以下问题,答复是一致的。


  • Are there any planned changes to the ILM design? This condition might only exist with certain versions of the ILM. Can you confirm that these ILM are to spec?
  • "Based on current data, we can’t attribute the IHS deflection variation to any specific vendor or socket mechanism. However, we are investigating any potential issues alongside our partners and customers, and we will provide further guidance on relevant solutions as appropriate." —Intel Spokesperson to Tom's Hardware.
  • Some users report reduced thermal transfer from the deflection issue, which makes sense as it clearly impacts the ability of the IHS to mate with the cooler. Would Intel RMA the chip if the mating was poor enough to lead to thermal throttling?
  • "Minor IHS deflection is expected and does not cause the processor to run outside of specifications or prevent the processor from meeting published frequencies under the proper operating conditions. We recommend users who observe any functional issues with their processors to contact Intel Customer Service." —Intel Spokesperson to Tom's Hardware.
  • The chip deflection issue also impacts motherboards. As a result of the deflection on the chip, the rear of the socket ends up bending, and thus the motherboard. This raises the possibility of damage to the traces running through the motherboard PCB, etc. Is this condition also within spec?
  • "When there’s backplate bending occurring on the motherboard, the warping is being caused by the mechanical load being placed on the motherboard to make electrical contact between the CPU and the socket. There’s no direct correlation between IHS deflection and backplate bending, other than they can both be caused by the mechanical socket loading." —Intel Spokesperson to Tom's Hardware.
Intel says it continues to monitor the situation, but there are no changes planned for the socket design. Intel also says that the Alder Lake chip deflection condition doesn't cause the bending on the motherboard; instead, this is caused by the load that keeps the chip secure in the socket. That statement makes sense because the chip obviously doesn't cause the bending, rather the force from the socket does. However, the statement doesn't answer the question about whether this is within spec or could cause damage, thus leaving questions about a potential long-term impact on motherboard reliability.

Intel insists the Alder Lake deflection condition isn't a problem, but enthusiasts that want the best performance and cooling possible obviously won't agree that poor contact with a warped processor, and the resultant higher temperatures, are ideal. We do have to keep the issue in context, as an extra 5C likely won't impact performance enough to be a worry for the overwhelming majority of users, but enthusiasts, performance addicts, and extreme overclockers are obviously more than willing to take extreme steps to claw back that extra few degrees of cooling capability.

The longer-term motherboard implications might warrant more scrutiny. We're following up with various vendors to see if we can learn more.

ILM的设计是否有任何计划的改变?这种情况可能只存在于某些版本的ILM。你能确认这些ILM是符合规格的吗?
"根据目前的数据,我们无法将IHS的偏移变化归因于任何特定的供应商或插座机制。然而,我们正在与我们的合作伙伴和客户一起调查任何潜在的问题,我们将酌情提供有关解决方案的进一步指导。" -英特尔发言人对Tom's Hardware说。
一些用户报告说,偏转问题导致热传递减少,这是有道理的,因为它显然影响了IHS与散热器的配合能力。如果配接不好,导致热节流,英特尔会不会对芯片进行RMA?
"轻微的IHS偏移是意料之中的,不会导致处理器超出规格运行,也不会阻止处理器在适当的操作条件下达到公布的频率。我们建议观察到他们的处理器有任何功能问题的用户与英特尔客户服务部联系。" -英特尔发言人向Tom's Hardware表示。
芯片偏转问题也影响到主板。由于芯片的偏转,插座的后部最终会弯曲,从而影响到主板。这就引起了对贯穿主板PCB的导线的损坏的可能性,等等。这种情况也在规格范围内吗?
"当主板上出现背板弯曲时,翘曲是由放在主板上的机械负载造成的,以便在CPU和插座之间进行电气接触。IHS变形和背板弯曲之间没有直接的联系,除了它们都是由机械插座负载造成的。" -英特尔发言人向Tom's Hardware表示。
英特尔表示,它将继续监测这一情况,但没有计划对插座设计进行改变。英特尔还表示,Alder Lake芯片的偏移情况并不导致主板上的弯曲;相反,这是由保持芯片在插座中安全的负载造成的。这种说法是有道理的,因为芯片显然不会导致弯曲,而是来自插座的力量导致弯曲。然而,该声明没有回答关于这是否在规格范围内或可能造成损害的问题,因此留下了关于对主板可靠性的潜在长期影响的问题。

英特尔坚持认为Alder Lake的偏移情况不是问题,但是希望获得最佳性能和冷却效果的发烧友显然不会同意与翘起的处理器接触不良,以及由此产生的更高温度是理想的。我们必须保持这个问题的背景,因为额外的5C可能不会影响性能,不足以成为绝大多数用户的担忧,但发烧友、性能上瘾者和极端超频者显然更愿意采取极端措施来夺回那额外的几度冷却能力。

长期的主板影响可能值得更多的关注。我们正在跟进各个供应商,看看我们是否能了解更多。


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 楼主| 发表于 2022-4-10 14:29 | 显示全部楼层
反正我买肯定加,加了又不用多少钱,看视频实测确实没那么弯。
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发表于 2022-4-10 17:20 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2022-4-10 19:17 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
感觉现在最靠谱的方式就是把主板扣具螺丝上加垫圈吧?

—— 来自 HUAWEI LYA-AL00, Android 10上的 S1Next-鹅版 v2.5.2-play
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发表于 2022-4-10 20:29 | 显示全部楼层
sunbeach 发表于 2022-4-10 17:20
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV13a411q78M?zw

哈哈哈要点逼脸


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发表于 2022-4-10 20:38 | 显示全部楼层
银光闪耀 发表于 2022-4-10 19:17
感觉现在最靠谱的方式就是把主板扣具螺丝上加垫圈吧?

—— 来自 HUAWEI LYA-AL00, Android 10上的 S1Next ...

最省事:放盖不压杆,散热器压
低成本:加垫圈
高成本:定制扣具

1是装卸散热器要注意;2是薄了效果不大,厚了反作用;3就是贵
论效果1、3应该差不多,2其次
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