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任区版主huya君有令转帖，在下自然从命。
原在tgfc发布之时仅欲说明一个问题，即“不知之事，莫加毁谤。任天堂Revolution操作方式的创新，完全是该社历年来大力投资大胆开拓的结晶，并无任何剽窃他方资源的必要”。
此帖本无战意，敬请前辈们谦和以对，不吝赐教，并向已浏览过以下讨论的各位致歉。
http://www.tgfcer.com/club/newsd ... Daysprune=&lp=1
原主题---“玩家质疑：革命，抄袭，EyeToy，传统控制器。。。“
答谢支持，已更新，作出部分回复。
稍有空闲，不如借此机会与朋友们简单谈谈。
最近在一些中文论坛里，有个别朋友提出了一个论点，说任天堂的新控制器抄袭了PS2的周边EyeToy的创意。
在下认为，其实不然。
（一）图像捕捉
单看任天堂在美国专利局注册的专利即可明确，从任天堂自涉足游戏业以后在专利局的数千项有关游戏的专利来看，该公司在游戏领域拥有十分骄人的技术力量。
不久前随意翻看了几篇专利档案，发现任天堂早在2000年就归档了将用数码图像捕捉设备获取的人物形象等图像信息应用于游戏的专利，请见：
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/n ... amp;RS=PN/6,811,492
朋友们一定了解，早在GameBoy Color时代，任天堂就拥有将玩家形象通过数码照相周边存入游戏内容的先例。
（二）运动感知
另外，关于运动感知技术，先前在下专门向各位介绍的任天堂与Gyration 公司在陀螺仪定位系统的研发上的协议，在此不妨再简单回顾一下。请点击以下Gyration官方链接，发表于2001年。
http://www.gyration.com/intl/uk/pr-nintendo_uk.htm
如果仔细浏览一番Gyration网站，就会发现，革命现有的控制器，正是应用了这个“陀螺仪定位装置”。
显然，某些“先知”早在几个月前就一言中的了。
另外，关于类似运动感知技术以及相关控制机理，任天堂在美国专利局同样有记录，以下链接为2000年的归档，由任天堂的宫本茂先生等发明。
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/n ... amp;RS=PN/6,917,356
其实，最早最简单的类似应用，各位前辈们应该是非常熟悉了，那就是FC的光线枪游戏《DuckHunt》。早在革命传闻阶段就有人提出”DuckHunt”和”BigGun”等暗示，由于FC游戏下载列表上，存在这个游戏。
这样看来，任天堂事先就存在有关知识产权记录在案。说革命“抄袭”Teytoy，完全是缺乏事实根据的误解。
（三）传统控制方式
另外有朋友说，革命的新控制器不能胜任传统游戏。
首先，革命将支持原先的GC用控制器。
再者，欧洲任天堂市场部的Jim Merrick 在最近一次访谈中提到：
How is the controller going to work with games that aren't designed specifically for the Revolution - multi-platform titles and so on?
Jim Merrick: We're producing a classic-style expansion controller, based on traditional designs like the Gamecube controller. It's like a shell with a hole in the top into which you slot the freehand-style controller, and then you can play third-party ported games, and retro Nintendo games you've downloaded.
So there's that option - but even while it's inserted into the classic-style shell, the freehand controller will still be able to sense positioning and so on, so there are more options too.
（来源：revo-europe.com，原cube-europe.com）
意思就是说，任天堂（官方）正在为Revolution开发一款传统设计的控制器，充当已经展示的那部分控制器核心的外壳，可以胜任任何第三方或者旧有游戏。
正因此，IGN.com才根据这位官方发言人的表述，制作了一张假想图。
(IGN根据官方描述作出的假想设计图)
任天堂官方表示，TGS上所见的控制器，只展现了周边之一，革命的周边有许多种可能，有多款扩展设备均在设计研发之中。
U-Force, PowerGlove, Virtual Boy...如果朋友们仔细回顾一下任天堂硬件的发展，就会发现许多意想不到的革命性设计。如果感兴趣的话，不妨调查一下任天堂革新的历史，恕在此不作详解。
另外，关于第三方软件阵容，还有主机的硬件机能和图像处理，今后如果有机会，愿意与朋友们作更详细的讨论。
时间关系，暂行告辞。朋友们如果存在什么疑问的话，欢迎踊跃发言，谢谢。^_^
。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。
9月20日更新
(四) Nintendo-ON作为未来周边的可能性
多啦A梦前辈在回复中提到：就现在革命所使用的各种技术来看,头盔控制器有多大可能??
答复：
类似Nintendo-ON设计的头戴式虚拟现实目镜或者头盔，曾是革命传闻焦点之一。Nintendo-ON（假想作品）同样配置有陀螺仪运动感知设备，玩家通过旋转头部这个动作，达成对画面视点的转换。就这点可以说是与革命的现有控制器类似。
今日不久前，GameSpot论坛有玩家指出，将现有革命控制器接驳于一个类似头盔的外设上，即可立即实现这种可能，这不失为一种极具创意的想法。参见原讨论：
http://forums.gamespot.com/games ... 23642404&page=0
在下认为，局限这种可能性的最大障碍，是革命主机与控制器之间信息传输的带宽。
现阶段的控制器（如WaveBird）与主机达成的无线传输，自然是用于传输简单的指令信息。当然革命控制器和主机间在此基础上增加了运动信号的反馈，需要的带宽相应提高了。而我们知道，将信息无线传输至目镜或头盔显示器需要更大的传输速率。
如果任天堂在扩大WiFi网络覆盖面的同时，更大幅度加强主机与控制器之间数据带宽的话，相信类似Nintendo-ON或者改进型VirtualBoy目镜，将在不久后实现。
关于Nintendo-ON的讨论远远不能平息，任天堂为了玩家们借此自发造势，更不会当面进一步辟谣。传闻阶段某人获得的Nintendo-Emagin员工电话的窃听记录，揭示了任天堂与虚拟现实目镜制作公司的秘密伙伴关系。
http://www.emagin.com
Nintendo-ON有关话题还有很多，今后有机会再作解释。
附图：
任天堂早在1987在日本注册的商标
Nintendo-ON的标记
（五） “脑波控制器”作为周边的可能性
版主Joylin随后提到有关“思维神经直接控制”的概念。相信这里指的是传闻阶段提出的“脑波控制器”。
答复：
脑波控制机制，即Brainwave controller的使用。革命控制器正式公布前，一位德国的记者发现了“游戏主机制造商”和NeuroSky公司的产业联系。
曾经有一篇报道称：
Five companies, including a Bluetooth headset provider,game console maker and trucking company, are said to have signed up to market end-user products containing NeuroSky's chips.(...)
NeuroSky is working with videogame console makers on an application to sense the mood of the gamer and adjust the game accordingly. "It's like having a dancing partner who follows your lead," said Yang.
http://www.eetimes.com/news/late ... articleID=163701653
文章中提到的”game console maker”是谁？ 游戏主机制造商，现今可以想见的，只有三大家。当时，这位记者对此的第一反应即是---任天堂。
http://www.neurosky.com/
NeuroSky的制作的芯片将被整合到游戏控制机制中，通过探测玩家的脑波变化，相应地控制并改变游戏内容。
脑波控制器，将在不久之后实现，至于具体是什么制造商，暂且不得而知。
如果这位神秘主机商恰是任天堂，相信该社的脑力锻炼系列，将有更加新颖并且激动人心的突破。
脑波控制器并不是科幻，论坛中的玩家们将亲身体验到脑波控制器带来的革命性操作。这个系统，与上面提到的Nintendo-ON相比，拥有更大的可行性。
除此之外，还有N.A.S.A.与"某日本游戏厂商"的全息图像装置，可以在原来的"传闻帖“中找到详细介绍。
（六） 如何实现精确定位
不少朋友问道：革命控制器是如何实现精确定位的？
答复：
在前面内容中已经提到了Gyration公司和任天堂的合作。当然，现阶段证据表明，Gyroscopic Sensor，是革命控制器定位技术的一部分。另一部分将通过Bluetooth Technology，蓝牙技术来实现。
陀螺仪工作的基本原理与装置的旋转角动量有关，装置的角速度和转动惯量足够大，以至倾向于持续原有的旋转状态。该技术曾被运用于哈勃望远镜，并广泛效力于军事，海上导航，宇宙空间勘测等领域。
至于陀螺仪技术在商用电子领域的具体实例，请详见Gyration公司的鼠标以及其他控制器产品。
就目前所知，革命的控制器将能探测旋转量的大小。
欧洲任天堂发言人Merrick先生，在TGS后同一次访谈中解释了许多问题，以下一段文字很好地说明了除了陀螺仪的tilt sensor以外，如何用两枚感应器达到控制器位移的探测。
How is movement of the controller detected?
We use Bluetooth technology to communicate between the controller and what we call a 'sensor bar', which has two little sensors on it that are maybe a foot apart. These sensors can be detached from the bar and they can be above the TV or below the TV - it doesn't really matter.
There's really no set-up other than just putting the bar by the TV. There's no calibration for size or type of TV or anything like that.
---Jim Merrick , Nintendo Europe
http://www.gamesradar.com/news/d ... p;subsectionid=2504
根据任天堂欧洲市场部Jim Merrick在访谈中的讲话：
“革命控制器通过蓝牙技术与可以被安置在电视机附近的两枚小型传感器单元进行数据交换。”
因此，除了内置感应转动的陀螺仪技术，该蓝牙装置就是运动定位系统工作的基本架构。
个人认为，探测机理应该不难想见：即探测电波信号的强弱。
由于信号的强度与距离的平方成反比，因此控制器和电视的距离可以仅仅通过一个感应器来检测，但相同距离的点将构成一个完整的球面，以至于无法确定确切坐标。此时，另外一枚感应器的作用则是创建另一个距离对球面的坐标系。两个坐标系重叠后，定位的误差就随之减小到了一个圆周之上。
个人认为空间的精确定位需要至少三个感应器，至于任天堂是如何做到的，就不得而知了。
stage1st论坛一位朋友还提到了多普勒效应测定位移。
对此在下认为，电磁波的多普勒效应遵循狭义相对论的推导，而非一般意义空气媒介下的声波多普勒。控制器的运动速度一般较低，获得的电磁波波长变化是微乎其微的，个人计算估计，波长变化将小于原波长的1*10^-7(千万分之一)。个人认为，任天堂的控制器或者任何民用设备将不可能具备能够探测如此细微的物理量变化的精度，因此多普勒测定法并不十分可行。
（七）现在看到的革命主机和控制器是最终设计吗？
答复：
不是。
美国任天堂的Perrin Kaplan女士在TGS后表示，革命现在的主机和控制器的外观将被进一步改善。和当初的DS类似。
任天堂表示，主机和控制器的秘密远没有揭开。
=========================10月6日本主题最后更新=======================
为感谢各位前辈长期支持，特将本帖进行最后一次更新。时间有限，寥寥几笔，仅求简要。
（八）“革命”的定名，Nintendo Revolution System?
Nintendo Revolution，不失为一个深入人心的名称。各大论坛的任天堂支持者们纷纷表示，希望官方继续沿用Revolution这个具有划时代意义的词语。
任天堂官方以及与任氏有着密切往来的IGN网站再三宣称，Revolution只不过是开发代号，并非正式定名；而TGS上各位所见到的控制器单元，也不见原本”Revolution”标记的踪迹。任天堂是否已经放弃了这个极具震撼力的名称呢？
Nintendo Entertainment System= NES
Nintendo Developers System (aka Nintendo Dual Screen) =NDS
…
Nintendo Revolution System = NRS
曾参与在下主持的“革命传闻分析与”讨论主题的前辈们，一定知道，”NRS”是本人根据IGN内部域名所预测的名称。
ps3.ign.com----PS3专题
xbox360.ign.com----Xbox360专题
…
blahblah.ign.com---无效
nr.ign.com------无效
…
rs.ign.com-------IGN错误页面
几个月前的无效链接：”rs.ign.com”，终于是不出所料地指向了IGN.com。不难想见，IGN正忙于建设这个页面。
“Nintendo Revolution System”
-----个人认为最为可信的最终定名
（九）“革命”的机能问题, 传奇人物 Han_Solo：
曾经正确透露Xbox360硬件指标的Han_Solo，不止一次地“泄露”了Revolution的技术信息。正题前，或许有必要先就Han_Solo其人作一番简要的介绍。
Han_Solo是G4TV论坛的一名会员，注册于2004年1月8日，发贴数至今1241篇。Han自称曾是Factor5的员工，日本剑道四段，并精通飞机驾驶技术。根据G4TV另一位会员介绍，Han_Solo来自澳洲，服役于澳大利亚空军，在大学获得物理学学位，精通数学和计算机技术，学识广博。
Han_Solo先生先后总计提供了三份“革命”硬件数据，以下是他在G4TV发布的内容（恕不翻译），全部可以在这个链接找到：
http://forums.g4tv.com/messagevi ... LE=&STARTPAGE=3
(Han_Solo关于革命机能的第一帖)
OK guys, got some new things about Revolution.
Yesterday Nintendo released their "near-to-final" specs again
Remember that N-Forum Magazine that was published on the internet about what the Rev will be like. It said Nintendo had 2 systems to choose from. I personally don’t know if that was true or false, but this is what happened.
Nintendo does have 2 prototypes in schedule, and is going to decide some time next year on which one to go ahead with. They also said that some of the specs I have released in my other set of specs have some errors , and that this is the much satisfied spec.
Revolution Specs
<一号方案>
System 1
CPU:
IBM Custom PowerPC 2.5 GHz with 128 KB L1 cache + 2 internal Highly customized G5 cores, 2.5 GHz each.
Each G5 core will have 128 KB L1 cache.
The whole CPU (including the cores) will share either 256 C 512 KB of L2 cache.
Its Dual Threaded, G5 cores to have 2 hardware threads per core, 4 Threads total
10 billion dot product operations per second
Theoretical speed of CPU in a non-realistic way of looking at it, but it still is correct….
2.5 GHz CPU + 2x 2.5 GHz cores = 7.5 GHz total
Now this seems correct to that GameInformer Magazine that published the specs, but these specs are similar, but faster…
Revolution GPU
The same GPU spec as I released in my other sheet. Here’s a look back on it; But unfortunatley no HD support.....
ATI Custom based RN520 core. The "N" stands for Nintendo, and is because the ArtX team is with them, that is why it’s an "N". There will be 2 GPU cores (just like the nVidia SLI motherboard with two Graphics Chips), this will use ATI's alternative, and will be the first in any console.
GPU cores at 400 MHz each, theoretical 800 MHz. Will support up to 2048x1268 resolution, but no HD support, so that resolution is null.
28 way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines for each core with unified shader architecture. Thats a theoretical
56 Shader pipes if combined
Polygon Performance: 500 million triangles per second theoretical, average in game would be around <100 Million/sec>
Shader Performance: 45 billion shader operations per second
Revolution memory
512 MB of 700 MHz 1T-SRAM
Revolution will support a PPU chip (Physical Processing Chip). There will be 32 MB’s of its own RAM, which will link to the CPU and GPU and the Controller .
There will also be a separate sound card that will support only DD 5.1 C DTS 7.1, rumours has it will have 16 MB’s, like the Cube DSP
<二号方案>
System 2
CPU:
IBM Custom PowerPC 2.5 GHz + 4 internal Power PC G5 cores running at 2.5 GHz each. Each core will have 128 KB L1 cache.
The whole CPU will share 512 of L2 cache.
Dual Threaded so there will also be two hardware threads per core, 8 hardware threads total.
15 billion dot product operations per second
Theoretical of 2.5 GHz + 10 GHz CPU speed = 12.5 GHz
Revolution GPU
2 GPU cores running at 500 MHz. Now this says there will be HD support up to the resolution as above...
Each GPU will have 256 MB of GDDR4 RAM
28 way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines for each core with unified shader architecture.
Polygon Performance: 500 million triangles per second theoretical, average in game would be around <100 Million/sec>
Shader Performance: 52 billion shader operations per second
Revolution memory
512 MB of 700 MHz Updated 1T-SRAM
Revolution will support a PPU chip (Physical Processing Chip). There will be 32 MB’s of its own RAM, which will link to the CPU and GPU and the Controller .
There will also be a separate sound card that will support only DD 5.1 C DTS 7.1, rumours has it will have 16 MB’s, like the Cube DSP
So theres 2 systems. For maximum system performance, i would go with system 2, but since 4 cores are really hard to code, i would go with system 1, as thats more than powerful enough to compete with the xbox 360 or PS3, GPU wise, the CPU i think technically is a little slower than the xbox 360's CPU by 20%.
(Han_Solo不久前发布的新消息)
WHAOHH!!!!!!!!!! A thread that’s flaming………
Back on subject,
Andross01, when I said Theoretical 7.5GHz, where you add up all CPU Hz, I did say “this is an unrealistic way of looking at it”; didn’t I. Its just a “crazy, stupid” way of looking at it that’s all .
Nintendo has modified the System 1 specs. They have deleted the System 2 specs as it is obviously expensive and really powerful.
System 1 specs can be viewed on the first page of this thread, posted by White Wolf. Nintendo now has to choose between the System 1, that’s on the front page, or these Modified Specs.
<一号方案-改>
System 1 Modified
CPU:
1 IBM Custom PowerPC 2.5 GHz with 256 KB L1 cache and 1 MB of L2 cache (an L3 cache is rumored). It’s Dual Threaded
13 billion dot product operations per second
Revolution GPU
ATI Custom based RN520 core. The "N" stands for Nintendo, and is because the ArtX team is with them, that is why it’s an "N".
GPU core at 600 MHz. Will support up to 2048x1268 resolution, HD support is still being decided. Will have 256 MB’s of 1T-SRAM (the RAM is much better due to some tweaking, compared to GC’s RAM. The latency and Cells are much more efficient and faster. Around 1.2 ns is the latency, on average).
32 parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines.
Polygon Performance: 500 million triangles per second theoretical, average in game would be around <100 Million/sec>
Shader Performance: ~50 billion shader operations per second
Revolution memory
512 MB of 700 MHz 1T-SRAM
Other bits and pieces
Revolution will support a PPU chip (Physical Processing Chip). There will be 32 MB’s of its own RAM, which will link to the CPU and GPU and the Controller.
There will also be a separate sound card that will support only DD 5.1 C DTS 7.1, rumors has it will have 16 MB’s, like the Cube DSP
So there’s the modified version. I think this would be on par with Xbox360, though PS3 could have an edge in the CPU area. In the GPU area the Revolution beats PS3, and technically would match Xbox 360.
根据Han_Solo的原话，革命的最终硬件指标将在以上所述的“一号方案”和“一号方案改”中选取。
不幸的是，不久前IGN的编辑Matt-Casamassina在Mailbag栏目里代表Factor5总裁，针锋相对地给予Han_Solo先生一记“官方重击”，满目嘲讽，旨在辟谣。
http://cube.ign.com/mail/
“Matt responds: Sweet Jebus! If you're going to send me these long spec lists, at least have the courtesy to format them first. I mean, it took me like six minutes to properly list all of that crap! And for what? Just so that I could write that these specs are totally bogus and insanely inflated. Honestly, Revolution isn't going to be anywhere near that in terms of power and memory. I wish I could paste some of the cackles I got from industry folks when I showed them those crazy specs.
Oh well, at least that list filled up the mailbag section nicely -- and for that, I am thankful.
Oh, by the way, there seems to be an abundance of douchebags on the Internet who claim to have so-called leaked Revolution specs. Some joker calling himself 'Han Solo' alleges that he is an employee of Factor 5 and has specs for the system. As expected, he is a liar. Here's what F5 president Julian Eggebrecht has to say on the subject:
"Han Solo is a scoundrel, we all know that, but in this case he isn´t a very clever scoundrel. That so-called employee of ours posting on message boards under the Han Solo name certainly isn´t employed at Factor 5 or working in any way for us. He isn´t speaking for the company and he better change his story as to where he has his information from, or we will be forced to take legal action against him."
Incidentally, Mr. Solo's specs are likewise completely bogus. These people really seem to get a kick out of making up completely outlandish spec lists. I really want to get in on the fun. Let me try.
I have a friend who works for Camelot Software, and according to him, Revolution features 1 billion megabytes of embedded 1T-SRAM and its ATI-designed graphics chip runs both at 1.2 gigawatts and is simultaneously able to travel back to 1955 whenever it clocks speeds beyond 88 miles per hour. Spread the word!“
这则消息的确非常令人忍俊不禁，当然，不得不承认Matt最近在IGN-Cube的表现，体现了这位编辑独特的“幽默感”。其实最令人发笑的是，堂堂Factor 5 的总裁，居然借助大规模媒体诸如IGN之力，对一个名不见经传的论坛小人物的“无端言论”作出如此严厉的抨击，并以“法律制裁”相胁迫。
可能朋友们与我一样不禁要问，Factor 5总裁Julian Eggebrecht 先生，是否是对那份安卧在办公桌之上，任天堂要求签署的NDA（Non-Disclosure Agreement，保密协议）心有余悸呢？
Han_Solo得知Matt出言不逊后，在G4TV发表言论反击，声称凭借自身卓越的剑道技术，对Matt之流毫不畏惧。
不妨关注这条新闻，tgfcer论坛的DBLBX前辈发布了关于ATI公司”R520” 系列显卡的讨论帖：
http://www.tgfcer.com/club/newsd ... aysprune=5&lp=1
令人疑惑的是，Han_Solo早在几个月前的那篇“Revolution机能”中就谈到了ATI专门为“革命“设计的”RN520”图像处理器，同属”R520”系列，N代表Nintendo。在Han_Solo不久前透露的内容中，“RN520”显卡的主频和内存竟然和ATI-R520系列相一致。
“Factor5前员工”，“澳洲空军”，“剑道四段”的Han_Solo先生，是否能逃脱法律的制裁呢？这位有着揭示Xbox360性能良好纪录的“内幕者”，是否同样如实地透露了”Revolution”的硬件指标？或者，任天堂已经退出了无利可图的主机性能之争，Perrin Kaplan女士在访谈中提到的“GC的2-3倍”的个人猜测才是Revolution的真实面目？恐怕只有宣称“对纸上谈兵的数据不感兴趣”的任天堂高层才知道其内幕罢。
（十）《死亡之屋4》登陆Revolution？(+游戏影像下载)
今日浏览IGN之时，注意到这篇极其有趣的文章：
http://cheats.ign.com/objects/758/758419.html
早在9月1日，这则鲜为人知的报道，就已经揭露了下一代控制器机理的谜团。
The fourth edition of Sega's lightgun horrific shooter, set three years after the second game and featuring House of the Dead 2's protagonist, James Taylor (as well as new hero Kate Green) as the battle untold horrors from beyond. In this edition, the power of next-generation gaming hardware is used to create masses of attacking zombies to blast through. The lightgun controller features a new motion sensing feature to allow players to shake off zombies when they grasp the player.
以上文章是关于街机游戏《死亡之屋4》的最新报道，与先前公布的Xbox360专区链接同名游戏的差异令在下迷惑不解。世嘉曾公布该游戏有可能出现在此世代平台，而并没有明确指向。
文中提到的“光枪控制器”具有新的“运动感知特性”。当玩家被“次时代游戏硬件”创造的丧尸纠缠时，可以通过摇动光枪控制器来摆脱。
现在看来，这款街机游戏完美地运用了“革命”的操作方式。
那么《死亡之屋4》究竟是否是为Revolution量身定做的作品？各位朋友不妨通过这个IGN地址下载一段影像：
rs.ign.com/games/video/article/647/647277/hotd4_090105_qtlow.mov
欣赏完毕后请回顾以上影像链接地址。
RS.IGN.COM……
Revolution System….
//虽然NRS依旧疑点重重，本主题更新至此。革命的支持者们一定还记得这张官方图片罢（注意观察控制器的倒影…a…Y…）：
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/im ... 050915061344791.jpg
感谢。
MR.Nintendo |
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发表于 2005-9-19 11:11
