死死团
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战斗力 鹅
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注册时间 2010-6-23
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没人作评论，我就去国外的论坛上找了找。
http://ykdb.monkey-pirate.com/in ... f2c12&topic=8.0
这个贴就是关于菅野洋子涉嫌抄袭的曲目的一个报告帖兼讨论帖，从2004年到2014年都在更新。看完后你会发现，在上面的那两个帖子以外，还有很多。
但是与之相比，有个我觉得更有意思的现象。很多粉丝，甚至是一些自身就是音乐人的粉丝，在知道这一事实的前提下，依然对菅野洋子做了很高的评价。
比如帖末的两位
@nitrus
I have been a very big fan, admirer and worshipper of YK for about five or six years now. My admiration of her was never diminished even by these plagiarism allegations – the immensely diverse body of work she has been able to put together over the years is remarkable and even if we removed all of the songs which some suggest are copies of something else, we would still be left with one of the most talented and prolific composers around.
I am a musician/composer myself and I have to admit: sometimes I cannot imagine being able to create meaningful music without first being inspired by somebody else’s music – and not only inspired by its feeling and mood, but also often by actual harmonies, structures or arrangements, at least in the initial phases of developing an idea. The point is being able to take it somewhere else, to the point where all or almost all of the initial inspirations have been replaced by something yours.
The vast majority of YK’s songs that bear a resemblance to something else are in this basket, or just a little bit beyond it. A prime example, which I don’t think anybody has brought up yet, is the final orchestral piece of the Smooth in the Shell CD. It was probably inspired by this track called Morning in Montana by Don Harper:
http://open.spotify.com/track/6CRQKnop5ZY1UZG3KwmgIT
Both are beautiful and gentle pieces. The opening is almost the same, and I leave the legitimacy of its lifting to your judgment, but Yoko takes the song to a very different place eventually. If she had altered the opening a bit more, nobody would have suspected a thing. I repeat, most of the songs discussed here are a very similar story. All composers, apart from maybe a handful of the crème de la crème, just work this way at least some of the time, deal with it. I think Yoko is just being more honest about it, since she does not try to forcefully hide her inspirations.
That being said, there are a few examples of really shameless ripping off, such as Cloud 9, Cyberbird, Sniper’s Theme and some others, of course. I strongly believe the original artists must have been communicated with and compensated. There have been lawsuits about much less obvious inspirations and many have been won, whether they were justified or not. It’s very unlikely none of the original artists never learned about this and never pursued legal action.
As much as I am intrigued by this, as a listener I don’t really mind or care. Yoko is a far better composer, arranger and producer than most of the artists she might have copied from and her songs are mostly far superior to their inspirations (exceptions include Craig Armstrong for example, who is a genius composer and arranger and his songs are at least as wonderful as Yoko’s “versions”). If it weren’t for YK, I would not have known those songs anyway. So it’s really a question of ethics and artistic integrity, which is Yoko’s personal matter; and a question of law, which is only between YK and the original composers.
Not too long ago, I have become good friends with somebody with whom YK has collaborated very closely and very frequently. I don’t want to brag and therefore I am not disclosing his/her name and identity. I don’t want to push the YK angle between us too much, but do you think one day I should open this topic and ask him/her about this? Maybe we can get answers, but do we want to know? I’m not sure, really.
@Yyrkoon
Hey Nitrus, thanks for your comment!
I'm a composer myself, although it is not my full time job, but I think I also understand the way Yoko Kanno works when she "reuses" some parts of a music or a whole music.
But it's delicate to say she should have to communicate with the concerned artists, because she would certainly have been refused or asked for some money, and she would have certainly declined the offer, and nobody would never have known her versions.
I believe anyone should be able to write the music he wants, and I like to think of a stolen music as a tribute, especially because Yoko Kanno almost always make another piece of music out of another one. But my point is that actually she makes a new original music every time (I have to add "almost" because there are awkward exceptions).
For example I'd like to speak a little about Cyberbird, because this is one of the most delicate "reusing" she made, but I don't think her work is shameful.
What is true is that it is insanely similar to Battersea from Hooverphonic, except her strings arrangement and recording are far better, and the way she mixed all her Gabriela Robin voices altogether is genius. There's also this silent passage which is not in the original version (she made a 6 minutes song out of a 4 minutes one, so that's a good thing there are some original passages too), and her gibberish melts better with the music than the English lyrics.
But, the structure of the song is different (Cyberbird begins directly with all the strings and the voices for example) and the main melody is very different (just the first notes of the vocal part are the same), enough for me to say it's not a copy, or even a better copy. It's a new original music, very strangely sounding like the original one, but it's not a copy. She may have reused the same chords succession (while actually she did a few adjustments), but she did almost everything again, she composed again a good part of it, and she arranged everything with her style (and recorded a complex chorus with only her voice...).
There's also Heaven's not Enough which shares only the same 4 repetitive notes with Craig Armstrong's Wake Up In New York, but you cannot really say there's plagiarism (except she reused tons of things in that album so actually we know it's not a coincidence).
Actually, I'd say "plagiarism" when a person just takes a song and re-records it without doing anything, and especially if the same structure, vocal melody and lyrics are conserved. it's something hard to tell, but I'm convinced Yoko Kanno always works from A to Z even when she reuses another music.
After, concerning the music you mentioned, it's really possible she got inspired after listening to Morning in Montana, it's difficult to be sure though, but it's different enough for me not to be concerned.
Another interesting fact I found out is that usually experienced musicians and especially composers don't really accuse Yoko Kanno of plagiarism whereas other persons will do that more easily. I think musicians all know that you never writes a music out of nothing, you always have something in your head like the last music you liked or listened to, or a music you want to create the same atmosphere. And eventually, in the end, it will result in something totally different, but sometimes you want to try using the same chords and the same ideas the original music was created with, and it sounds (more or less) a bit alike.
I also remember watching an interview from Cowboy Bebop when she said that she often listens to other songs and when she likes something she just takes it and tries to use it. It's said with such innocence it's really funny and shameful.
May I ask you something concerning your work? Are you a professional, and if that's the case would you mind sharing with us some of your works? Cheesy
Concerning your friend, I'm really intrigued, of course that would be great if he/she shares with us some interesting facts he/she had when working with Yoko Kanno, especially concerning this aspect of her works. |
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楼主: penrynx
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发表于 2014-8-17 10:55
