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战斗力 鹅
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注册时间 2015-9-23
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转贴：
https://www.quora.com/What-would ... =b971c92a&srid=2SXO
明天翻译，注意英文可能有剧透
大意：
1. 托尔金是个19世纪托利党（英国保守党）。
2. 托利党的政治观是：老贵族比暴发户强，因为暴发户会不择一切手段攫取权力；托利党的世界观是：善行会立刻得到好报，好人不会陷入道德两难境地，因为神不会让人受这种考验；托利党的道德观是：善恶都是恒久不变的，人的身份都是天生注定的。
3. 因此，托尔金不会喜欢任何老贵族当坏蛋的文（哈哈哈哈哈哈哈），不会喜欢任何角色成长的文（全部18世纪以后文学），不会喜欢任何好人没好报的文（冰火），不会喜欢任何有道德两难抉择的文（冰火）。
4. 我觉得2概括魔戒还是挺准的，因为魔戒里头就没有暴发户好人，好人要么是老贵族（精灵甚至不会死）要么是乐天知命（霍比特），最大的坏蛋索伦是个典型起点文主角。
问题：托尔金如果还活着，会如何评价哈利波特和冰与火之歌？
What would J. R. R. Tolkien say about Harry Potter and A Song of Ice and Fire if he were alive?
Doc Wimsey, studied at University of Michigan
He would have hated them both, in part for the same reasons, but also for reasons specific to the two stories. Right of off the bat, Tolkien disliked stories like Harry Potter and SoI&F that are centered around protagonists: as he explains in his letters, Tolkien hated “character-driven” stories (i.e., nearly all post-18th century ones!) because he found people struggling for self-identity to be depressing when it should be obvious that your identity is whatever your parents’ identities were. (Tolkien was almost a caricature of a 19th century Tory: and they considered the literature of their time that we now consider to be “classic” to be degenerate because they [correctly] thought that it was an assault on traditional class structures.)
他两个都不会喜欢，某种程度上是出于同一原因，但也有这两篇小说各自的因素。首先，托尔金讨厌像冰火和哈利波特这种以主人公为中心的故事：这一点他在信件里解释过，就是他讨厌“人物驱动”的故事（换言之，几乎所有18世纪以后写的小说他都讨厌！），因为他觉得既然你在人生中扮演的角色显然就应该跟你爹妈的角色一样，有人为了成为什么样的人而努力这件事就让他特别不舒服。（托尔金是个标准到几乎有点滑稽的19世纪托利党：这些人觉得当年那些被后来人奉为经典的小说都是道德败坏，因为他们（正确的）认为这些小说在攻击传统社会阶级体系。）
As a wannabe-19th-century-Tory, Tolkien would have hated some of the themes of the Harry Potter books, particularly the “Tories are bad” theme embodied by the frequent corruptness of the old-families in Slytherin. In Tolkien’s works, it is those people who are not born to power but who aspire to it who fall into evil. “New money” is bad because people who lacked wealth but covet it will do anything to get it. “Old money” is good because those people who are raised with it will not hurt others to gain more. (And, yes: this really was the heart of the Tory vs. Liberal debate 150 years ago; I think that we can say that both sides were right about the other side! :-D )
作为一名19世纪托利党接班人，托尔金不会喜欢哈利波特的某些主题，尤其是通过频繁提到蛇学院那些老家族干出的昧良心事表现的“托利党是坏蛋”主题。在托尔金的著作中，落入邪道的都是那些未能生来就继承权力，而是后天追求权力的人。暴发户是坏蛋，因为缺乏财富却觊觎财富的人会不择手段去攫取财富。老贵族是好人，因为生来的有钱人不会为了更有钱去伤害其他人。（对，这还真就是150年前托利党和自由党争论的核心问题；我觉得我们可以说双方都准确的抓住了对方的本质[手动滑稽]）
Tolkien would have hated just as much the lack of themes in SoI&F. As Tolkien explains in his extended essay “On Fairy Stories,” stories should have themes that espouse and embody “eternal truths”: there is right and wrong and they are immutable and permanent. A story based on characters constantly coming to grips with decisions that violate one value or another in order to uphold a different value would have disturbed him. (Many Christians find this to be anathema: “God won’t let people be put in those situations” they insist; and this is another reason why social conservatives tend to dislike modern literature.) A story in which good deeds frequently are punished and which never earn any sort of “Instant Karma” also would have offended Tolkien: for all intents, God pushed Gollum into the Fire (an “eucatastrophe”) because Frodo earned the intervention with his self-sacrifice. So, having Jon Snow assassinated for saving the Wildlings, or Daenerys almost assassinated for freeing slaves (Tolkien hated slavery!) would have mortified him: God should reward such things, after all.
托尔金对缺乏主题的冰火的憎恨也不会比讨厌哈利波特来得少。托尔金在他那篇长篇评论《论童话故事》（On Fairy Stories）中论述过，故事应当具有能够证明和包含“永恒真理”的主题：有真理，有谬论，两者都永恒不会转化。讲述人物常常需要选择放弃一条道德信条来维护另一条道德信条的小说会让他非常烦恼。（许多基督徒痛恨这种两难抉择：他们坚持认为“神不会把人放到这种处境中”；这是社会保守主义者讨厌现代文学的另一个原因）另外，善行老是遭受损失而从不获得“当场奖励”的小说也会触怒托尔金：在他的故事里正是因为佛罗多作出了自我牺牲，才赢得了神的帮助，把咕噜推进火海（这叫“圣祸”）。因此，让琼恩·雪诺因为救野人遇刺（剧透1），或者让丹妮莉斯因为解放奴隶（托尔金憎恨奴隶制！）几乎遇刺（剧透2）会让他感到奇耻大辱：毕竟，神应该奖励这种行为才对。
Really, one could go on and on: but you would find very few modern stories that Tolkien would not have hated, and his reasons for hating those encompass why he would not like these two works.
这种例子真是简直举不完：你会发现托尔金不讨厌的现代小说真是屈指可数，而他讨厌这些小说的理由都涵盖了他不会喜欢这两部作品的原因。 |
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发表于 2018-11-23 12:33
他是怕干豆腐召集民意代表（虽然很可能等不易就自己一棒子敲过去了）
